What happened to this game???

[ashhh]

Well, today ive stumbled across the new ICC10 trial version and found myself hugely dissapointed by a game which has had me hooked since the 2001 ashes version...

Last year we saw a huge improvement in the match engine, which compensated for the lack of managerial action, and player stats such as; power, placement, defence technique e.t.c.

This year i find myself downloading the game and still seeing no effort to improve this side of the game, which would almost definitely bring thousands more users to the game, and not leave it stuck with die hard cricket fans and manager game fans.

Instead we have improved features, which to be honest have clearly not being improved whatsoever. I look at the match engine and do NOT see 1 change other than that tiny box in the bottom corner telling me how many runs ive scored that over...

Outside of the match engine i see new STATISTICS for the batsmen and bowlers, and poor new 'improvements' such as 20/20 overseas players and backup overseas. I really hope this is because all the old developers have been sacked and the new ones are just learning their way around the game, because if you expect me and other people to buy a game when clearly ALL you have done is change the interface and give us useless averages, then you may as well quit now before you start making huge losses on any further games.

At the end of the day this is a GAME and not a scorebook full of stats, and i do NOT buy games like this to look at averages, and play the same game that i paid for last season to watch painful match engine highlights such as the forward defensive to a non existant slower ball, and the horrific slog over cover shots on defensive shots.

What i fully expected was to see updates such as footwork in the match engines and shown skills in the player profiles to give users something to tryout and work to improve, and instead i find ive waited a full YEAR to get updated players and an Australian League. Fantastic. I hope you've got the sense to either quit or get these updates done before the end of this English cricket season as this is one big ICC fan you have lost

[Imager36]

A few quick points on this.

- Okay, so the 'Match Engine', which I would call the 'User Interface' has not changed much. But does it need to? Making things prettier, more rounded and so on is not actually improving the part of the game that appeals to cricket fans, which is the unerring accuracy of the simulator.

- On your point about wanting to appeal to more than 'Die hard cricket fans' and 'Management game fans' I would suggest that almost every game out there appeals to only 2 groups of people. Football Manager, one of the best selling games every year, only appeals to 'Die hard football fans' and 'Management game fans'. COD 4 MW 2, only appeals to 'War game fans' and 'FPS fans'.

- If your point is what I think it is, what were the changes to the highlights between ICC08 and ICC09? They were that the camera zoomed out a bit. That was it.

- Good to see someone who offers a different opinion on stats, but you might have gone a bit far the other way. Also, what 'averages' have been added in this game that have not been in the last 6 or so and are not integral to cricket as a whole?

- Showing footwork in the match engine is a bit harder than you think. In fact, developing a game is a bit harder than you think, I think.

- As a final point, don't take such an aggressive tone. No one will listen to you if you want to have them sacked. (How many times do I have to say this to people?)

That's all I've got on that one.

[Chris Child]

Hard to interpret statements like these. Clearly a fan of the game but wanting it to move in a different direction. We don't put individual statistics in for power/placement etc. because we think the game is better when you try to work out how good your players are by watching their performances. Lots of people get angry about their favourite features not being added, but we can't do everything and even if we did it would be a dogs dinner that no-one would want to play.

Hopefully, as a fan of the game, you will play it long enough to appreciate that we spend our time getting the subtleties and balance of the game just right. An enormous amount of work goes into this each year, and we will continue to develop it year by year.

[ashhh]

Of course the match engine needs to be improved from the previous version, was it perfect? nowhere near so and its been a full year, not a few months. Who wants to watch their batsmen getting bowled to a fast bowler and then 2 seconds later playing their horrible forward defensive? Where in test matches do you see a player slogging over cover and point the way they do in the match engine? If this game is to appeal to new people then it clearly needs to improve to at least seem realistic.

Are you telling me that this game sells as many copies as FM10? or even 1% of that? If you want to get a decent comparison of cricket games then look at the recent PS3 cricket games and see how many this sells in comparison, why does it not appeal to 90% cricket fans and players? because everything is guesswork and the match engine unrealistic.


I didn't play ICC08 so can't comment on that but still you may still want to notice that the match engine is a mirror of last years.

The averages comment, i was saying that this whole game seems more focused on showing users averages and wagon wheels of runs, which should be forgot about until player statistics are brough in surely? Its like its been done backwards. Again its exactly the same as last seasons except its all been moved about a bit.

Footwork is an example, but anyone that has tried games such as EA sports cricket, expects an improved match engine each time, and as a manager game there is very little difference between the 2 games? apart from the EA sports version not only looks better but you play the game. Would you buy that game to watch the computer play eachother and every so often change the lineup and fielding positions? They also have player stats ( im not even a fan of those games myself... )

And i do think i should be using an aggressive tone in my earlier post, who wants to buy a 2nd hand game to be told its all been updated? The teams have been updated with new players, in FIFA10 you get that as a free update...

* Long term test and ODI AI picks improved
* AI bidding improvement to create more balanced teams and more competition for top players
* Ability to declare during intervals
* AI for close finishes and twenty over matches improved for more nail-biters
* Batting aggression realism improved, to reflect real matches
* Fielding engine enhanced to give greater accuracy and boost highlights watching
* New in-game tips to help you master the game
* Auto-simulation removes the need for clicking next over – sit back and relax as the cricket unfolds in front of your eyes

Just look at these updates for a brand new game.

* Ability to declare during intervals
??? seriously?
* AI for close finishes and twenty over matches improved for more nail-biters
i assume this means more monumentally unrealistic collapses when a team is strolling to victory
* Fielding engine enhanced to give greater accuracy and boost highlights watching
unnoticable at best
* New in-game tips to help you master the game
the little tips that you read whilst your game is loading?

I would love to see this game sell millions, as i think even the 2d games up until 08 were fantastic, but this does seem very half hearted to give us what we are paying for

[Imager36]

Yeah, what you fail to mention here is the addition of the Australian domestic season. If that isn't in there to appeal to new fans then I don't know what would.

I wasn't trying to suggest that ICC sells anywhere near FM. I was just saying that your point about opening up new markets was almost invalid because FM only appeals to 2 and is one of the biggest and best PC games in the world.

It's only £15.00 (roughly). Don't expect anything sensational. IC10 for Xbox360 and PS3 is £40.00. It is not fair in any way to compare Codies/EA to Childish Things, either.

No I would not buy a cricket action game. Ever. Action cricket games are generally awful, something I realised quite a while ago. Taking IC10 again, can you play as the 18 English counties? Can you play as the Australian States? Even though Codemasters is a massive company, you can't play a licensed IPL either. Heck, even the international teams that aren't England and Australia are unlicensed. From a top notch cricket game, do you want that?

I can't even play as them myself, unless I make the effort to create each one tirelessly.

It's not big budget, I'll give you that. I own one year's edition where Chris put his own quote on the back of the box , but it does incredibly well with a limited amount of resources, and incredibly well to be the best cricket management game that there is.

Does it not appeal to 90% of cricket fans? Or have they just not heard of it? (By the way, I heard that 68% of statistics are made up )

I'll agree that there aren't many changes, but I'd say that there are enough, with a squad update, to justify £15.

[GrahamB]

Hard to interpret statements like these. Clearly a fan of the game but wanting it to move in a different direction. We don't put individual statistics in for power/placement etc. because we think the game is better when you try to work out how good your players are by watching their performances. Lots of people get angry about their favourite features not being added, but we can't do everything and even if we did it would be a dogs dinner that no-one would want to play.

Hopefully, as a fan of the game, you will play it long enough to appreciate that we spend our time getting the subtleties and balance of the game just right. An enormous amount of work goes into this each year, and we will continue to develop it year by year.

Keep up your efforts Chris. Many don't seem to realise that you don't have a huge team of developers working on the game.

[the_trademarc]

Keep up your efforts Chris. Many don't seem to realise that you don't have a huge team of developers working on the game.

True.
Don't get down beat when people criticise. They don't know the whole story. You'll always have the full backing of the people who know what your situation is!

ICC10 is very very good BTW, starting to build my own team at Hampshire now, and boy the AI and Regens are really a step up from 09. Actually got demoted to Div2 last season in the County Champs! Never happened in 09!

[Scritty]

* Long term test and ODI AI picks improved

This still needs a little work. Central contracts are awarded to the strangest players. If you are your national coach/captain, you should at least have some say in this. I find I ignore at least 3 centrally contracted players. Firstly there only ever seems to be one CC spinner, I nearly always play 2 (one an allrounder). Pietersen lost his CC in 2012 in my game, but was Englands leading run scorer for another 2 years after this happened - notching 11 hundreds in 8 test series at an average of over 50. The guy who got his contract faded away never to be seen (or picked by me) again.

* AI for close finishes and twenty over matches improved for more nail-biters

There are now some nailbiters, and a lot of dull games. If you are unfortunate enough to be a Worcestershire supporter you will have seen 7 one sided, dull games so far this season. And one they managed to win - which was also far from being exciting once the second innings faltered. T20 does NOT guarantee nail biters - in my experience watching the IPL and county T20 on Sky this year, a lot of games are really rather dull, and definately one sided. As soon as a side loses three wickets it's like watching paint dry for an hour.
Let's not simulate something that isn't real. I think ICC 2010 has this almost spot on.

Batting aggression realism improved, to reflect real matches

In my current game batting aggression is almost perfect. Thge number of 4,s, 6's and strike rate of the leading team (Durham in my game) reflects almost exactly the same situation Sussex are in in real life (I compared the most succesful "real life" side with the most succesful "ICC2010" side.

Again, you might want to see more sixes, but in reality the average is about 5 a game, with many games having 3 or less (to compensate for the odd game where 8 or more are hit)

* Fielding engine enhanced to give greater accuracy and boost highlights watching

It's improved, but I'd still like a little more control here. Like a better idea of who your rocket arm fielders and good fast outfielders are as well, and this reflected in game animations

* Auto-simulation removes the need for clicking next over – sit back and relax as the cricket unfolds in front of your eyes

A great improvement, i'd love a slightly tweaked auto sim control and options. You can sim whole games, or press auto play. But I would like to see this increased a bit. with "Sim until xxxx" options or automatically carry on simming at the fall of a wicket with preset batting aggression, same with bowling rotations. Tricky to do right, but it is on my wish list somewhere.

A quick note on stats. (or more correctly records).
They aren't for everyone, but the game already produces them - it just strangely doesn't collate some of them into meaningful lists, then it discards most of them after two years anyway. It's not a new feature, just refinement of an existing one.


Scritty

[Sureshot]

I did bring up user selected central contracts during 2010 development, as someone mentioned it here last year, we opted against it as we felt it could lead to people abusing that option to help their county sides.

[Imager36]

As I said (10 million years ago), how about only in international career mode? Or points based as it is in real life?

[Themer]

Yeah follow the way they award incremental central contracts and expand it. "Non-contracted players earn points for England appearances: five for a Test match and two for a limited-overs game, and can earn a contract by accumulating 20. " 1. Thats how people get an incremental contract to make it work for full ones just add two contract bands.

People who aquire over 20 points get an incremental contract and as such their counties only pay half of their usual contract demands and players who go above say 40 get a full central contract.

And when in control of the international team you should be able to make centrally contracted players to rest instead of them playing for their counties.

1.http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/cric...nd/8722546.stm

[Imager36]

And put a limit of, say, three from each county, as there is a gentleman's agreement in real life.