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  • 50 over batting struggles

    Hi guys,

    I’m a big football manager fan, and an even bigger cricket fan, who’s just discovered the game. Just got the England job, and my first tour is a 3 match ODI series in India. I’ve been playing some practice games outside of my career to get a feel for international cricket, and the one thing I can’t do is bat overs 30-50 in a one day game.

    England obviously have a really strong and aggressive batting lineup, and I can use them to good effect to start with. In most games, I’m getting 60-70 in the power play, then I’m 180+ for 1-3 wickets after 30 overs. However from there, the wheels fall off. I try to kick on for a big score, moving my batsmen to the first orange aggression level once they’re fully settled and then to the second for the last 5-10 overs, but as soon as I lose a wicket, the new batsmen can’t buy a run, even on yellow aggression levels. They then bog the innings down, I struggle to score at 6 an over, and I collapse to less than 300 (my last innings went from 204-1 at 30 overs to 274 all out after 45!).

    Any tips for what I should be doing to accelerate at the end of a 50 over innings? I’d assumed Morgan, Stokes, buttler would be able to comfortably score at 7-8 an over, and even more at the death, but in 10 or so games I’ve chased over 300 once and never set over 300, despite strong starts usually.

  • #2
    My typical approach in county One-Day (depending on conditions) is to start around 4, move up through 5 to 6 as they settle and if they look strong and I feel I need more runs I go up to 7. 8 aggression I tend to save for the last few overs if I have wickets to spare. As batsmen get out I might then put the new chaps on 5 or 6 immediately depending on the state/time of the innings, and if it's the last few overs they go immediately to 7. That said, I also find that I have a couple of settled batsmen who put up most runs and then when they're out the replacements are more sluggish. It could also be that the AI bowlers go onto 0 aggression later on when you bat first and make it harder to score, whereas you can score more earlier when they have less defensive fields. Like you I struggle to get to 300; 274 would be a decent score for me.

    I did just have a horrible innings in good conditions:

    Click image for larger version  Name:	50out.png Views:	0 Size:	164.0 KB ID:	72858

    I started my openers on 3 aggression each. Drinkell settled fast, Vasconcelos was using a rubber chicken instead of a bat and flapped at the second ball. Westlake came in and did the same thing 2 balls later. After that I put new batsmen on 2 aggression, then as it kept repeating I went for 1. They just kept acting as if they'd never played the game before, and that was on lower aggression than I'd typically use in a 4 day match!

    Drinkell went from 3 through to 5-6 and then into orange before getting himself out after watching all the rest come and go to at least give me one guy with a respectable score, but even then his strike rate was poor. Probably the shock of seeing what all the rest were doing

    Anyhow, that was certainly a struggle.
    Last edited by Chris_; 09-04-2020, 01:56 PM.

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    • #3
      I feel like I've cracked 50 over batting after a semi final loss in my first season with Leicestershire followed by winning the one day cup in my second.

      The trick is remembering that scores of 300+ are the norm these days. The toss is key, if the pitch favours batting first then bat first, if it doesn't and you're put in then frankly you may be in trouble.

      For the batting itself I always start on 6 bars, the highest yellow setting at any rate. This normally allows us to buzz along at 6 an over, in the last 10 overs or earlier if wickets are in hand I'll go to 1 off max aggression and stay there. I've had no problem reaching 300+ regularly and occasionally get well over 350. Even with a collapse you can often still reach the higher 200s. It's not foolproof and occasionaly you will just fold like a pack of cards so just hope that this doesn't happen in the knock out stages. When chasing I use the same tactic and it works well. This is a different and more aggressive approach compared to what I found last year where keeping wickets in hand and going big in the last 10 was more effective.

      I find batsmen's individual agression doesn't matter too much until you hit the last 10 overs where having a couple very aggressive players coming in for that 'finisher' role can really be effective.

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      • #4
        To follow up, after the terrible batting performance in the match above, a couple of days later my openers do this:

        Click image for larger version  Name:	50win.png Views:	0 Size:	56.7 KB ID:	72861

        They strolled to victory in 43 overs after I bowled Nottinghamshire out for 212. Started on 4 aggression, up to 5 as they got half settled and then 6 the rest of the way when in the green.

        I'm baffled as to how that can follow the previous innings, where no one could survive despite only being on 1-2 aggression.

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        • #5
          Ideally give at least 20 deliveries on aggression 3 to any good batsman, then take the aggression up to 6. Usually a score of 30 to 40 for no loss after 10 overs is fairly good. I've seen scores of 300+ in every 2 out of 5 matches while playing for India.

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          • #6
            I am not sure why you guys struggle in ODIs so much. My average score in ODIs is around 300. I usually get score in the range 280-360. I chased down 381 vs W.I quite easily.
            I think the problem for you guys is that you are too conservative. Star at 5 bars and notch up to 6 after 20 overs if no wicket is down. I start every batter at 5 stars. And then increase or decrease as the situation demands
            Attached Files

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            • #7
              I too kick them off on 5 bars, moving up to 6 once they are just over half settled. I raise it to 7 for existing or new batsmen depending on how many over and wickets down I am. If I have the batsmen 280-350 is where you should be getting.

              The biggest problem I can have is self-inflicted. Unless the pitch is dead flat I can usually bowl the opposition for a pretty low total. I then start my batsmen a bit lower and while keeping ahead of the run rate don’t have to push them very hard. This means that I often don’t know how good my lower middle order is until trying to chase or set a big total by which time it’s too late! Players that look brilliant are sometimes only brilliant when the pitch is fairly flat and the game is almost won anyway.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Lynx54321 View Post
                I feel like I've cracked 50 over batting after a semi final loss in my first season with Leicestershire followed by winning the one day cup in my second.

                The trick is remembering that scores of 300+ are the norm these days. The toss is key, if the pitch favours batting first then bat first, if it doesn't and you're put in then frankly you may be in trouble.

                For the batting itself I always start on 6 bars, the highest yellow setting at any rate. This normally allows us to buzz along at 6 an over, in the last 10 overs or earlier if wickets are in hand I'll go to 1 off max aggression and stay there. I've had no problem reaching 300+ regularly and occasionally get well over 350. Even with a collapse you can often still reach the higher 200s. It's not foolproof and occasionaly you will just fold like a pack of cards so just hope that this doesn't happen in the knock out stages. When chasing I use the same tactic and it works well. This is a different and more aggressive approach compared to what I found last year where keeping wickets in hand and going big in the last 10 was more effective.

                I find batsmen's individual agression doesn't matter too much until you hit the last 10 overs where having a couple very aggressive players coming in for that 'finisher' role can really be effective.
                Are you starting new batsmen at six or do you ease them in in some way?

                I have a five star rated one day team that has never hit above 300. I tried your method for a season and found I was usually limping to ~200-250 with my batsmen out early.

                (incidentally I find the same in T20 - I follow everyone's advice about starting at Agg 7 and rarely am I not five down around the 100 over mark - again with a five star rated team)

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by frustratedofnewport View Post

                  Are you starting new batsmen at six or do you ease them in in some way?

                  I have a five star rated one day team that has never hit above 300. I tried your method for a season and found I was usually limping to ~200-250 with my batsmen out early.

                  (incidentally I find the same in T20 - I follow everyone's advice about starting at Agg 7 and rarely am I not five down around the 100 over mark - again with a five star rated team)
                  I don't bother easing them in, straight in at 6. Perhaps you've been unlucky? I do try and have a blend of defensive and average players at the top of my one day batting order with the agressive guys coming in further down to accelerate.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by frustratedofnewport View Post

                    Are you starting new batsmen at six or do you ease them in in some way?

                    I have a five star rated one day team that has never hit above 300. I tried your method for a season and found I was usually limping to ~200-250 with my batsmen out early.

                    (incidentally I find the same in T20 - I follow everyone's advice about starting at Agg 7 and rarely am I not five down around the 100 over mark - again with a five star rated team)
                    It is extremely frustrating when you are following what everyone is suggesting and it’s just not working for you.

                    Sorry to bombard with questions but how aggressive are the players and in what sort of form and experience? Also what sort of pitches are you getting?

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                    • #11
                      My players are mostly aggressive. I've built a deep team now and never have to play people with less than 2.5 stars.

                      What's your thinking on when to bat/chase? I tend to chase unless it's VG/VG or better..

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                      • #12
                        Always chase unless it’s VG/VG too, also if it’s VG/G if I don’t have two strong spinners and neither do the opposition. I find you can get a cracking start and unless they have two really good spinners it is hard for them (or you) to turn it around.

                        If I have any template it is England’s T20 win over Australia yesterday. Keep them within easy reach and have a class opener who can steer the team from the outset to a comfortable win without having to chase hard.

                        I find that the only issue I have with mostly bowling first is that since I am keeping their total down there is less of a requirement to have to push my batsman. They can look great when a good opener or two have already got us in a good position and the pressure is all on the opposition, you can start a little slower and build into a good innings. The problem comes when you have to bat first in anything other than ideal conditions and it turns out that your batsmen are just flat-track bullies and you struggle to put on a total.

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                        • #13
                          I just tried every batsman starting on 5 aggression in a one day game with both bounce and pitch being Good (4/5 bars) and the conditions mostly sunny with good visibility. This was the result:

                          Click image for larger version  Name:	5030.png Views:	0 Size:	234.3 KB ID:	72922

                          All out in the 30th over with my bowlers outscoring the batsmen again. Waite is an all-rounder, the 4 below are bowlers. I did lose the toss and was made to bat first which was also the case in my previous posted collapse, but the first session was actually the best for batting as when it was my turn to bowl the pitch was worse and weather cloudier. That didn't seem to affect the AI much though, as they scored from the start.

                          The frustrating thing is this didn't happen last season. I was the runner up then with mostly wins, and my losses typically came down to not quite scoring enough in the final few overs either being too conservative or just missing 1-2 boundaries. A batsman might occasionally go out in his first over but not half of them. A season later and it feels like a different game! I do have limited options this season as most of my squad were poached for The 100 so I only have 2 defensive openers I could rotate in for batting, 1 spare spinner and a spare 17 year old seamer on the sidelines. Last year I did have more options available. That said, these batsmen have all either scored well in 50 overs previously or hit centuries in first class games. They just seem to see the words "Challenge Trophy" and decide they need to drink 3 bottles of scotch before taking the field this season.
                          Last edited by Chris_; 09-07-2020, 08:01 AM.

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                          • #14
                            chris pls try my method, have them at 3 bars aggression till 20 deliveries and move them to 6 bars aggression after that.

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                            • #15
                              I could give that a go in the next season but to be honest I think what got me this time round was having almost all my squad away or injured. I essentially had no options to rotate or adjust for conditions. Wicket keeper on 0 star form? He still has to play, the others got picked for The 100. Cloudy day with lots of bounce? I couldn't pack extra seamers in, they were picked for The 100 or playing for England. Sunny day with a flat wicket? I couldn't put my Very Aggressive batsmen in, they all got picked for The 100.

                              Having to play the entire Challenge Trophy with the same XI meant as soon as form fell I had nowhere to go. From there, whether I started on 5, 4, 3, 2 or even 1 aggression made no difference - my team was ready to lose and once the first wickets fell the rest came tumbling after.

                              The previous year I was runner up in a drastically different run of play. Despite still having 12 players poached by The 100 I still had enough spare to allow some rotation for form and conditions. Not a lot, but evidently enough to make a difference. This year I had more players away and more injuries, which was just too much to deal with. Probably a result of doing well the year before - more of my players were seen as being good for white ball play.

                              The extra annoying thing was that after the Challenge Trophy ended the players I had to use in that were all low form and most of those returning from The 100 and Internationals were also down around 1 star form. That meant I really struggled in the final run of County Championship games after as despite having most of the squad back available they'd all forgotten how to play cricket.

                              Maybe I need to let a couple of good players go just to fill the squad with a bunch of mediocre players on 19k wages to throw in for the Challenge Trophy.

                              Have I mentioned I hate The 100?

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