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Player Ability Development and impact of Training

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  • Player Ability Development and impact of Training

    In terms of regens and player development in general, how does ability development work over the career of a player? I.e. Is there general progression for a player over their career towards a peak ability around 30-32 (I guess potentially even older these days) followed by a dropoff as they enter ther mid 30s. A follow on question is is there any way to note a player's progression if it does exist as I know Sureshot has mentioned some regens will spawn with much higher ability (and I guess closer to their potential) than others.

    In terms of Training, a few questions:
    • Does training general technique simply speed up reaching this peak ability?
    • When general technique is improved, is this portioned off randomly to different areas of abilities or does it affect something else entirely?
    • Does training specific technique such as spin, off-side shots etc only affect preferences or does it also contribute to being generally a better batsman?
    • Does Defensive/Attacking bowling technique affect the bowler at all aggression bars or does it affect their effectiveness at certain aggressions?
    Apologies if these topics have been covered before but I couldn't find a thread on it. Also, I actually play on CC19 rather than 20, but since this is a general mechanics post I have put it on the CC20 forum to have higher visibility.

  • #2
    These are all super questions - particularly about the age/performance curve (if there is one).

    My 22 year olds averaging ~30 in FC against 60ish in the seconds - should I be dumping them or do they just need to grow into it?

    Are the age curves different by format, too?

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    • #3
      Generally a batsman averaging around 30 at age 21 in FC and consistently being selected by AI in the first XI should go to maximum ability by age 25. Then till age 33, he'll probably average around 50 and tail off considerably by age 35-36. Same with the bowlers, any bowler averaging around 30 at age 21 and consistently being selected in starting XI should average around 25-27 between ages 25-33. Then he will tail off.

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      • #4
        Huh - does the AI know things then? For example: I have two 21-year-old RFM bowlers, but it's the one who averages 30 on first-class, not the one averaging 26, who's been England contracted. I thought the game might be dumb - is it in fact just better aware of the underlying ability?

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        • #5
          I wrote some thoughts on this in my thread - CC20 Review.

          Sum of my findings was that generally real young players do develop but too late, as it doesn't happen until they're about 25 by which time they've been released. Technique training doesn't seem to speed this up much.

          Most regens spawn nearer full ability so walk straight into sides. Salaries and second XI stats are the beat things to base your judgement on.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Lynx54321 View Post
            I wrote some thoughts on this in my thread - CC20 Review.

            Sum of my findings was that generally real young players do develop but too late, as it doesn't happen until they're about 25 by which time they've been released. Technique training doesn't seem to speed this up much.

            Most regens spawn nearer full ability so walk straight into sides. Salaries and second XI stats are the beat things to base your judgement on.
            I'm mostly wondering the extent to which regens do develop from that initial level.

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            • #7
              If that's accurate (the regens spawning near full ability) that seems a bit of a weakness in the game. I am sure Sureshot has mentioned before that they spawn in a range. It would be good to understand the ones that do spawn closer to their full abilities, roughly how much of an improvement you can expect because it seems pretty rare for players to burst onto the scene and be world beaters immediately.

              If we are talking about making the game more realistic, players definitely do become better over time. Steve Smith is an obvious example from the batsman perspective, as well as Ben Stokes's improvement in recent years. Spin bowlers traditionally take longer to develop unless they are freaks like warne. Jimmy Anderson has certainly improved with age as he's gained more control over his swing bowling.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by frustratedofnewport View Post
                Huh - does the AI know things then? For example: I have two 21-year-old RFM bowlers, but it's the one who averages 30 on first-class, not the one averaging 26, who's been England contracted. I thought the game might be dumb - is it in fact just better aware of the underlying ability?
                I am almost certainly talking out my backside but from what I’ve seen the AI does know something. My hypothesis is that the AI selects players more on where it thinks their potential could be than where it is.

                On that basis the guy averaging 26 is probably about as far as he can get to but the guy averaging 30 could do much better with the right training. How long that could take is anyone’s guess.

                I also find that once a player starts playing for England their averages take a nose-dive. Goodness knows what the AI does to them but every time they are called up their form drops like a stone. If you try to play them on their return it makes it worse since they have a few matches where they slowly build back up (averaging less than normal) and then the next international comes round and you are back to square one.

                The England bowling selection for the AI seems to be based on the national setup from over a decade and a half ago when take a promising bowler and mess with their technique to the point of making them practically useless.

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                • #9
                  The AI does select off the ability from what has been said previously in other threads.

                  It's always interesting to me because first game of the season, the selection is reset and the AI does it and there are often surprises to me such as in my newest save my regen that averaged 50 the previous season off 5-6 matches wasn't in the XI but another regen who was averaging 30-35 was(albeit off only 2-3 matches as he had come in as part of the youths in that year). Fast forward 2-3 seasons and the regen who made it in the team is now an England international in all three formats whereas the other regen is still solid, averaging early 40s in first class, but no sign of England.

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                  • #10
                    Great discussions about the ability curve, but anyone got any light to shed on the training side?

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Impirion View Post
                      [*]Does training specific technique such as spin, off-side shots etc only affect preferences or does it also contribute to being generally a better batsman?
                      Whenever I get a young batsman who has a strong preference I train them in the opposite. For example if they are a spin specialist I train them for fast bowling. When, or if, it works it changes their preference from spin specialist to prefers spin. It doesn’t seem to change their ability to score runs but it does seem to affect how easily they get out at the start of their innings to a particular bowling technique. In the case of a player who is a spin specialist they are particularly likely to get out against a F or MF bowler. Not always, obviously, but they would often struggle a bit. Once their preference is changed they are a little less effective against spinners than they once were but it is slight and there’s not good being able to smack one type of bowler about if you roll over for another.

                      The one strong preference I don’t change is for the off side, especially in an aggressive player because this seems to benefit them in limited overs matches.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Impirion View Post
                        Great discussions about the ability curve, but anyone got any light to shed on the training side?
                        I'm not convinced general technique training makes a huge difference. Over one or two seasons it seems to make no difference. Once a player hits his mid 20s then he may occasionally just seem to reach potential all of a sudden in my experience.

                        And as to the above point regens may well spawn within a range but they're clearly clustered too thickly at the better end. You only have to see them all scoring freely or taking wickets a plenty at the end of the first season straight after they've spawned to see they don't require the same development the real players need (and seem to struggle to achieve).

                        Been banging on about this for ages but devs seem to not be fussed. Regens like the above should be the exception not the norm.

                        Player development in this game is non existent you just look for the regens with the best second xi averages or highest salary demands and sign them up ready to go and there is always enough about to render this a non challenge.

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                        • #13
                          Well this raises two questions about training:

                          1) what does it do?
                          2) how does the game work out the propensity for training success? Is it random that it works for some players? Or is it the higher 'potential' players who respond?

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by frustratedofnewport View Post
                            Well this raises two questions about training:

                            1) what does it do?
                            2) how does the game work out the propensity for training success? Is it random that it works for some players? Or is it the higher 'potential' players who respond?
                            Chris answered this previously. Every player has a potential ability ceiling.

                            Every day in game there is a range within which each player will improve, both being in form or on technique training will move the improvement to the top end of this range in theory speeding up the players development towards their potential. Technique training will also slow down older players deteriorating. The message you get, 'x has improved his batting technique' signifies when they pass a threshold (no idea what the thresholds are).

                            In practice it's very hard to identify whether a player is actually getting any better or not. I'm of the opinion players develop far too slowly. In an experiment I did real life young players who start the game aged around 20 didn't seem to become competent/decent contributors worthy of a starting place until they hit their mid 20s which is far too late. Maybe back in the day players matured far later but these days players are breaking through in their late teens/early 20s and are first team players much earlier than 25 or so.

                            The combination of alow development and influx of first team ready regens mean all these real life youth players are released and on the scrap heap long before they can develop.

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                            • #15
                              If players do get better naturally a suggestion I would have is for the "technique improved" message to naturally occur even without training. This at least gives us some feedback and I think the lack of feedback right now probably contributes to the lack of understanding of how player development is working.

                              Similarly a technique has decreased for older players would be nice.

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