My Gripes (300 hours in)

[Scritty]

My Gripes with this game (300 hours in)

The "My credentials before I get so self indulgent" bit.

I have every single version of this game. I still have boxed ICC1 and 2 from the 1990's. I have the special Ashes version. I have it on PSP, Ipad and PC. Looking at Steam now I have no less than 8 versions in my Steam library. for some reason 3 of them are actually installed. (DocClarke on Steam - feel free to check all this for yourself)

In this latest version ICC 2020 I've clocked up almost 300 hours on Steam plus more Xplay on Ipad. The overall figure is well over 300 - but let's leave it at that for now.

Firstly - I'll say I don't think, taken alone, that this is a bad game.

I would not play any game for more than 50 hours if I thought it was bad. But that isn't the same as saying it is not disappointing.
It is a long way short of what it could, and probably (after 22 years) SHOULD be


The biggest gripe is - you can't play current tournaments or matches that are going on IRL with accurate teams.
I believe this is a major marketing error by the developers. The idea of streaming Cricket Captain playing an IPL - with the right teams/squads. to have fun and see what the outcome of that afternoon's match might be.
To sim a test series that is about to start.

No one is interested in someone streaming the IPL today with the wrong teams and squads. It removes the whole point of doing it.

You have never been able to do this in ICC. A few years ago they put out a patch a month or two before the IPL with mostly the right teams - which showed some intent. By the time the IPL started there were quite a few errors as players had dropped out and others joined and the squads were wrong. It wasn't possible to sim a game with the right teams.

If you look at Big Ant's arcade game "Cricket 19" an "Ashes" etc. They get a sizeable sales bump (according to SteamSpy) when a big tournament comes just because people want to play those tournaments ACCURATELY.

They actually do a second burst of advertising for the games around a big tournament. They allow full editing of teams, players, kits etc. You can take these online (and no-one cares or gets upset)

The reason (we are told) that ICC does not have an editor is that people would cheat and create perfect teams to take online.

While this may be true. I went online less than 6 weeks after the game came out, in the middle of the day UK time - and there was no one there. Not a single player waiting to play.

Also separating single player teams from multiplayer teams cannot be that hard. You already can't take teams created in Easy or Very Easy mode online. So why not apply similar logic to edited and created teams?

I may be doing the devs a dis-service. But it feels like they would rather not give you an editor in this 23 year old game - because a new set of squads with each new year is one of the only real selling points each new iteration has. That and adding a new worldwide league.

The list of annual updates below may come across as a little disingenuous.
But prove me wrong...

• Give a player database update. A feature that should have been fan create-able 20 years ago
• Increase the market size to sell more copies of the game to by adding the [Insert affiliate nation here] cricket league or whatever (that is of little or no interest to anyone outside the nation they add)
• Update the simulation algorithm to reflect real world trends (ooh batting down 0.05)
• Reveal another 2% of the stats the game generates to players.

Against that we have;

• Still no real fix overseas players not being available or replaceable.
• Still not fix 4th innings mega comebacks where sides who failed to score 150 in their first innings chase down 400 on a raging bunsen in the 4th innings (To be fair you can do this as a user as well. It's not just the AI that can do this. Lots of time. Zero aggression. Finger on the space bar...wait till you pull off a once in a lifetime win - 2 or 3 times a season)
• Obtuse and un-interesting coaching and player development. pay 10,000 for a point of "training" and stick it on a players weakness. And hope for the best. Might work - might not. A season or two down the line you might get a "A Francis has improved his back foot batting" that in no way seems to actually improve A Francis's backfoot batting, or his strike rate - or his average. He averaged 44 before. He averages 44 now. But does make his expected salary jump from 23,000 to 52,,000 meaning you have to release him anyway as you can no longer afford him And then watch as no other team can afford him and he drops out of the game (retired presumably) at the age of 24
• The overseas player who has not had a single first class game and is the only one you can afford. His availability says 100% You pick him. Pay the 26,000. He takes 35 wickets at 25 and promptly gets selected for his national side - despite never having played a single FC game in his home nation!
• The lack of compensation for the "One Hundred" players who leave your squad for a month mid season (I tend to sack any player that plays 100 now. Just buy 6 youth players a year on a 3 year contract and when they mature - if they want more than 30k. Especially if they play in the 100 - I sack them.)
• National Selection. You don't get a say in central contracts. And the AI makes some bizarre choices. I've had players who are awful and would never be considered for international duty get central contracts. Players I pick for every game and are the rock of a teams batting or bowling scoring runs and taking wickets regularly for England - wait 3 years before getting one.
• Needing to play your batters in for far too long in T20 games. Sometimes IRL a player gets off to a storming start (Johnny Bairstow does it all the time - others have done it) but in this game - if you push that aggression up above light yellow in the first 12 overs of a T20 and a wicket WILL FALL next over without fail. Again the AI suffers from this so I can manipulate the game by putting a total joke bowler on in the powerplay and know he isn't going to get hammered too badly. Rarely fails. then put the most economical bowlers on after the 14th over. It's so formulaic and feels like an exploit. Just like the 4th innings chase. But it works very well.
• No new player or team customisation options. Similar for the need to have an editable database.
• The longevity of this game as you proceed through the seasons is in the personality and bond you create with your team and its players. By 2026 when most of the England players now have gone, and your own 1st class side is full of regens, the game loses its charm. Every player becomes a set of characteristics I use to fill in a slot. It's no coincidence that every sports game ever - from every sport you can think of - now absolutely prioritises customisation and personality. Except International Cricket Captain. Which has fewer customisation options now than it did in 1998

It's not a bad game. But after more than 20 versions released over 22 years. It isn't a very good one any more either. It's hard to fathom how little has changed over such an incredibly long time.

I normally play ICC2002 in preference to any other version. Not least because I have an editor for it and it plays (sims over by over ) very much quicker.
I can play over-by-over, controlling bowling changes and batting aggression so much quicker. An over is complete the split second I press the space bar. Holding the space bar down means getting through a session in perhaps 12 seconds. That isn't a result of hardware improvements completely either. It was almost this fast 15 years ago on my old Core 2 Duo
Whereas the modern game is considerably slower.

I'm sure there is a difference in ball by ball results accuracy - but it's almost entirely transparent to the user.

And they took the ability to add user BITMAPS of players away.

I'd pay £40 maybe even £50 for a proper upgrade. A real push forward. That or someone else please provide Childish Things with some competition.

Yes - I gave the game a thumbs up here on Steam. I'm not contradicting that.
I'm qualifying it. It's a decent game. But it's very very similar to the decent game I bought back in 1998 and that I've bought almost 2 dozen times since.

Time to see some real increase in width and depth. It really is.

[Yorkie]

Take it you’ll not be buying the 2021 version then?

[Scritty]

Take it you’ll not be buying the 2021 version then?

I almost certainly will.

The completionist in me will win in the end. I'm also luck to have ma decent amount of disposable income and time (I'm semi retired)
I'll likely buy it twice as well to cross play on Ipad.
That doesn't mean I'm over-joyed at the lack of progress. There is no better game for ball by ball. But by now their really should be.

The editor, stats reveal and some customisation is not asking a great deal
Especially given that we have had user created unofficial editors for several versions in the past - and there used to be more customisation that they removed when ICC3 came out all those years ago.
So as far as programming difficulty and proof of concept, 2 out of the 3 big issues I have were either there in the past (to some degree) or added by users most years as unofficial add ons.

I've been having these conversations here and on the old Empire Interactive forums going back 20 years on and off. So I have no realistic expectation of the game evolving any time soon. Or indeed ever.
But if you don't ask...

[TJHC]

I agree with your sentiments Scritty, I recently suggested giving us loyal fans an opportunity to help them develop the game by having a funding round to give them the money to resource a development plan. Ideally we also have some level of say on the priority of those developments.

I believe Childish Things have a great game and are committed to it, perhaps what is lacking is the resource needed to advance the game - hence the strategy of adding new countries to broaden appeal and increase revenue.

[Wilted]

I also have similar sentiments towards CC and how the yearly releases are handled alongside the rare squad updates. I've been playing this series for over a decade and have bought the yearly release for the time I've been playing. I hate comparing CC to other games, especially when they come from larger studios but as many others have often pointed out other management sims have either regular squad updates or editors to compensate, Cricket 19 has a community hub to update squads and of course there are unofficial editors floating that can also solve this issue, and as pointed out if saves flagged with 'easy' can be barred from online, why can't 'edited' saves have a similar flag.

Updating squads should be as simple as getting a data entry temp from an agency in for a day's work. If someone with an editor can update squads in an afternoon and if I can do the same thing in Cricket 19 just as easily, I think it's fair to ask Sureshot and the dev team why the same cannot be done with this series. Or is it really to just ensure that each iteration has a 12 month shelf life? The incredibly minor updates each year hardly justify a new, full-priced entry and could suggest that this is true. Did updated squads/comps and OD rain delays really require a brand new release? We've been on the same engine with the same graphics with the same UI with the same regen system with the same generated fixtures since... I actually forget when there was last a significant gameplay update.

The worst thing is that Cricket Captain was a really great game (and is still a decent time sink) but it has aged terribly in terms of UI, online features and of course graphics. Personally I'd get rid of the janky models at this point and just replace them with splash banners for key moments for those that want an occasional break from looking at the scorecard.

And just like Scritty, I too will likely buy the inevitable CC2021 just for the sake of it despite it not containing any meaningful additions to content or gameplay ????.

[Lynx54321]

[*]Needing to play your batters in for far too long in T20 games. Sometimes IRL a player gets off to a storming start (Johnny Bairstow does it all the time - others have done it) but in this game - if you push that aggression up above light yellow in the first 12 overs of a T20 and a wicket WILL FALL next over without fail. Again the AI suffers from this so I can manipulate the game by putting a total joke bowler on in the powerplay and know he isn't going to get hammered too badly. Rarely fails. then put the most economical bowlers on after the 14th over. It's so formulaic and feels like an exploit. Just like the 4th innings chase. But it works very well.

Just to pick out this point. I've very much found the opposite. I've had great success with a more aggressive approach in t20s this year. Doesn't always work but neither should it.

[Scritty]

Just to pick out this point. I've very much found the opposite. I've had great success with a more aggressive approach in t20s this year. Doesn't always work but neither should it.

Thanks Lynx.

Clearly you can get good scores
Never managed it myself. I've won quite a few T20 trophies but win by attrition.
Rarely I will get off to a flyer - but not on highest aggression settings. I set it about 3 below max.
Some games I'll score at 10 or 11 an over at that level in the first 6. More of then than not I'll get a run a ball at that level and realise I'm not going to get the target - up it by one and lose a wicket. Never mind next over. It's often the very first ball of the next over. So it isn't the scoring rate. It's the aggression level. Sometimes I score quite quickly with a modest aggression level and don't need to put it up. But if I do need to up the aggression. I almost always lose a wicket.

I don't prioritise T20 batting. If I get overseas players for T20 they are always bowlers who average as close to 15 as possible with an economy as low as possible. It may be that I just don't have "Very Aggressive" openers - rarely have Aggressive openers. Which would be my bad.
Would love to do some proper analysis on this and comparisons with RL T20 cricket.

Just watching Prithvi Shaw hit 24 off the first over in IPL this afternoon. Mostly textbook cover drives where Morgan decided he didn't need a cover fielder.
A lot of "blow outs" recently in the IPL. Some very one sided games where sides chasing have made a mockery of a target the team batting first struggled to achieve.

[ruby23]

To be honest, it makes more sense for Sureshot to just charge an annual subscription fee to continue playing the game for a few years with regular updates for database, add-on charges for official player editor, etc. When there is a significant change to UI, graphics, features (DRS, etc.), a new title can be released. Till then, I'm sure 90% of loyal fans will be willing to pay every year for the subscription.

This will also give enough time for the Developers to create something substantially different every 3 years or so. Except DLS, there's no significant changes to UI or graphics since CC2018, so this could've worked out very well. Of course, the issue maybe pirated versions but some failsafe could easily be introduced into the code. Just my two bits, I apologise if I've hurt the sentiments of the Developers.

[cde]

[QUOTE=Scritty;n74975]My Gripes with this game (300 hours in)
[QUOTE]

I think you jist need to persevere, give yourself more time to familiarise yourself with the game.

[cde]

If there is one big criticism I have it is that each year sees an increase in the breadth of the game rather than more emphasis on chamging key aspects.

Personally I would also like to see just a few updates which focus on getting the correct players in each competition rather than constantly tweaking individual player's preferences/ability. Release an update at the start of the English season, the IPL, Big Bash, etc, with the players in the squads at that time.

There seems to be a lot of effort put into minor database tweaks and new leagies while, for example, the coaching stays unimproved and as random as a decade ago.

[Scritty]

If there is one big criticism I have it is that each year sees an increase in the breadth of the game rather than more emphasis on changing key aspects.

Personally I would also like to see just a few updates which focus on getting the correct players in each competition rather than constantly tweaking individual player's preferences/ability. Release an update at the start of the English season, the IPL, Big Bash, etc, with the players in the squads at that time.

There seems to be a lot of effort put into minor database tweaks and new league's while, for example, the coaching stays unimproved and as random as a decade ago.

Exactly this. More depth is what the game is missing. Adding something to training, nominating specific fielders for positions.
Doing this with every bowling change is a PITA. If you leave the CPU to do it after bowling change the fielders do what blowers used to call "general shuffle-houses" Now there are fielding skills you can train - let us use out better fielders without having to go into the field editor every 20 seconds.

Training could be better. It's too black box. Adding aspects.
Does a bowler have reverse swing? Are they good with the old ball or the new as a seam/swing bowler. Can we add that skill, and a slower ball.
What about new shots
Maybe this is already in the game - but it would be a total guess.
More coaching feedback and it being less of a black box process. Player development seems so random and you know nothing for so long "A Jenkins has improved his aggressive bowling" after a whole season of investment. It might happen. It might not. And how does it manifest itself. A coach who gives feedback and tells you some specifics about the player would be a possible solution to this information vacuum.
Contracts and replacing players who get selected despite having "100% availability" really gets on my wick. Suddenly you have no player and no reserve
The 100 for FC sides is a total PITA. Your best players ripped out of the side at a crucial point of the season with little or no compensation. I've lost several championships by having my best 6 players removed.
I don't think the 100 IRL works like this.
Personality adds depth in terms of engagement. Aspects that add personality to your players once they are all regens would increase (at least my) bond with the team and players.

Just a few ideas off the top of my head.

BTW that 300 hours is nothing compared to my time in 2002. 19 years of playing that must be several thousand hours.

[cde]

19 years in? That's more like it. I did say you needed more patience!

[Scritty]

Current ICC 2002 save. Almost 350 years in.
Just getting started.

[Yorkie]

You’re slipping. You’ve a 2nd and RU in 42..

[Sureshot]

Hi Scritty,

It's great to see the game so progressed.

A few comments from us on your feedback and a few other replies to this thread.

We don't have the time to get a database update out for when the Indian 20 over comp starts, the database for the summer season (which the Indian 20 Over starts at the beginning of) is always a big job that takes Dan, Chris and I a long time to work through, doing an update for the Indian 20 over comp in April with the previous version just wouldn’t work, there’s the overlap between winter and summer seasons of a few weeks and the weeks of balancing player abilities through May and June, which is mostly based off the previous year of data. We're looking at adding options to not have the first contracts section, which will give users the ability to play the first season in all countries with their real squads. Whilst other gaming companies might do database updates coincided with real events, we don't have the turnover in the millions that these other companies have that you’ve referred to.

With regards to other squad updates, we update the database regularly throughout the first few months of the release cycle, we always aim for the county squads to be accurate as of 1st April in most circumstances. The most recent Aus squad update was delayed by quite a bit due to a major issue with the Android version that took a fair time to resolve, along with a lot of other time being spent on the new Android build system we had to create. We will push hard to get the Aus winter squad update out before Christmas this year. It's also worth noting that each patch requires a fair bit of time to do, this makes it harder to patch the game outside of the English summer season, which is when our time is focussed on CC, outside of that we're busy with our other jobs and projects.

We actively encourage fan editors, we will continue to encourage these and have now found better methods to detect edited teams online. We've been in conversation with Harry about his editor for 2021. We don’t have the budget to make one ourselves and we don’t want to show player abilities because it takes away one of the main interests of the game, which is trying to evaluate your player abilities based on performance rather than just being given “there’s your best player – he has x abilities”.

Player images were removed from the earlier versions due to changes in image rights rather than us deliberately taking out customisation options.

The speed of the game being slow compared to older versions is down to the extra amount of stats and leagues that are run during contracts. Other areas are quicker, saving used to take half a minute on the old games, it's a second or two now.

20 Over Batting - It's incredibly hard to balance 20 over matches, because the balance between wicket chances, aggression, AI tactics, batsman settled etc. is very tightly dependent in this length of match. Each tweak takes time to test and settle in. We’ve improved this year by year, and, we've taken on feedback from the forums to help work on methods to improve user control in 20 over matches for Cricket Captain 2021.

Wilted The game isn't a full-priced entry, it used to be sold in what was known as the budget category when we were making physical copies, that price point still exists with CC when compared with other games. Like all other devs, we don't get all of what users pay due to sales taxes and digital distribution costs.

TJHC We did discuss your idea about the funding round, we didn't reply as we wanted to see what other feedback there was. CC does not have a big user base, for crowd-funding to enable us to compete with the budget of the likes of Cricket 19 it would have to generate a few millions, we think that's unlikely. It's worth noting that some of these other developers have publishers (we're independent now) that spend a few years of our turnover on a TV advert.

We’ve been working on this reply for a few days. Catching up on some other feedback...

The point on the 100 is valid, we’ve not had the real world data to compare it to yet.

It should only be affecting the OD comp in-game, which has been degraded to a lesser comp by the figures that be, it will affect that in this 2021 county season, as they are taking place at the same time. We’re looking at a separate availability column in Eng contracts for 100 players for CC2021.

We sincerely hope this reply offers some useful insights to you.

Regards,
Nigel and Chris