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My Gripes (300 hours in)

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  • #16
    [QUOTE=cde;n74991][QUOTE=Scritty;n74975]My Gripes with this game (300 hours in)

    I think you jist need to persevere, give yourself more time to familiarise yourself with the game.
    Eggsactly.

    I have clocked up 1400hrs on this version so far. Looking at my CC playing stats on Steam going back to 2014, I usually clock up somewhere between 1100 and 2000 hrs for each version.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Sureshot View Post
      Hi Scritty,

      It's great to see the game so progressed.

      A few comments from us on your feedback and a few other replies to this thread.

      We don't have the time to get a database update out for when the Indian 20 over comp starts, the database for the summer season (which the Indian 20 Over starts at the beginning of) is always a big job that takes Dan, Chris and I a long time to work through, doing an update for the Indian 20 over comp in April with the previous version just wouldn’t work, there’s the overlap between winter and summer seasons of a few weeks and the weeks of balancing player abilities through May and June, which is mostly based off the previous year of data. We're looking at adding options to not have the first contracts section, which will give users the ability to play the first season in all countries with their real squads. Whilst other gaming companies might do database updates coincided with real events, we don't have the turnover in the millions that these other companies have that you’ve referred to.

      With regards to other squad updates, we update the database regularly throughout the first few months of the release cycle, we always aim for the county squads to be accurate as of 1st April in most circumstances. The most recent Aus squad update was delayed by quite a bit due to a major issue with the Android version that took a fair time to resolve, along with a lot of other time being spent on the new Android build system we had to create. We will push hard to get the Aus winter squad update out before Christmas this year. It's also worth noting that each patch requires a fair bit of time to do, this makes it harder to patch the game outside of the English summer season, which is when our time is focussed on CC, outside of that we're busy with our other jobs and projects.

      We actively encourage fan editors, we will continue to encourage these and have now found better methods to detect edited teams online. We've been in conversation with Harry about his editor for 2021. We don’t have the budget to make one ourselves and we don’t want to show player abilities because it takes away one of the main interests of the game, which is trying to evaluate your player abilities based on performance rather than just being given “there’s your best player – he has x abilities”.

      Player images were removed from the earlier versions due to changes in image rights rather than us deliberately taking out customisation options.

      The speed of the game being slow compared to older versions is down to the extra amount of stats and leagues that are run during contracts. Other areas are quicker, saving used to take half a minute on the old games, it's a second or two now.

      20 Over Batting - It's incredibly hard to balance 20 over matches, because the balance between wicket chances, aggression, AI tactics, batsman settled etc. is very tightly dependent in this length of match. Each tweak takes time to test and settle in. We’ve improved this year by year, and, we've taken on feedback from the forums to help work on methods to improve user control in 20 over matches for Cricket Captain 2021.

      Wilted The game isn't a full-priced entry, it used to be sold in what was known as the budget category when we were making physical copies, that price point still exists with CC when compared with other games. Like all other devs, we don't get all of what users pay due to sales taxes and digital distribution costs.

      TJHC We did discuss your idea about the funding round, we didn't reply as we wanted to see what other feedback there was. CC does not have a big user base, for crowd-funding to enable us to compete with the budget of the likes of Cricket 19 it would have to generate a few millions, we think that's unlikely. It's worth noting that some of these other developers have publishers (we're independent now) that spend a few years of our turnover on a TV advert.

      We’ve been working on this reply for a few days. Catching up on some other feedback...

      The point on the 100 is valid, we’ve not had the real world data to compare it to yet.

      It should only be affecting the OD comp in-game, which has been degraded to a lesser comp by the figures that be, it will affect that in this 2021 county season, as they are taking place at the same time. We’re looking at a separate availability column in Eng contracts for 100 players for CC2021.

      We sincerely hope this reply offers some useful insights to you.


      Regards,
      Nigel and Chris


      Thanks Sureshot.

      A fan editor would be a great idea. That would negate the need for you to update the database. I feel there is a real opportunity for continued market presence through social media and Youtube if, and only if, people can sim or play games just before or alongside real life games - with the right teams. My Youtube channel has a few I did during lockdown where I renamed players to the players of the teams I play for IRL. But if you see the amount of interest other sports, or even other cricket games get when a channel plays a game alongside a real life game. I can't imagine it would be anything other than excellent promotion for the game

      Space for photos would be all that is required. Some semblance of personality rather than only a page of stats. I get you can't provide any. But I'm not sure you have to. I don't think I'm telling you anything you probably don't already know when you see how other sports franchises are leaning more into customisation and personality. This aspect of a game is key to long term engagement.

      This treatise is of almost academic quality - it deals with MMO, but the triggers it talks about are applicable across almost all gaming genres, and certainly sports games where you manage or control players as avatars or agents


      I would draw your attention specifically to the section "Motivation: Willingness to Replay the Game"
      The role of cosmetic customisation in getting players to return to a game is (not to put too fine a point on it) enormous. In many cases tripling playtime and doubling the players likelihood of spending more money on that franchise in the future.
      The list of citations at the bottom of the page shows the volume of work carried out on the field.. Customisation, in short, gets people playing much more often, and encourages them to buy your next update or add-on. The difference in results is not insignificant. It isn't about providing the images. It's about providing a few tools so that players can add or create themselves.

      A few comments above have shown me I may have been a bit myopic regarding T20. The pitches in the IPL this year have been so varied with 210 being barely defendable one game and 150 being a challenge the next.. T20 seems a very wriggly beast to trap.

      Anyway - thanks for your thoughtful reply Sureshot. Good luck with future updates
      Last edited by Scritty; 05-08-2021, 11:12 PM.
      The continued lack of stats in ICC is not so much the elephant in the room - as the Brontosaurus in the bathtub.

      Comment


      • #18
        [QUOTE=CricketFan;n75052][QUOTE=cde;n74991]
        Originally posted by Scritty View Post
        My Gripes with this game (300 hours in)


        Eggsactly.

        I have clocked up 1400hrs on this version so far. Looking at my CC playing stats on Steam going back to 2014, I usually clock up somewhere between 1100 and 2000 hrs for each version.
        I'm pretty sure my 2002 time is in the tens of thousands of hours. I mean despite me being well over 300 hours in 2020. I'm playing 2002 at the same time, and putting a lot more hours into that (because I enjoy it more) This year I just thought I'd give a modern version a lot more of a chance. Also the 300+ doesn't count my Ipad play on the same save.
        Unlikely Ipad play adds another 300 hours - but it is easily 200. So my overall time with this years version is well in excess of 500 hours. I think that's enough to make a considered critique of the game.
        The continued lack of stats in ICC is not so much the elephant in the room - as the Brontosaurus in the bathtub.

        Comment


        • #19
          Personally I would love to see a lot more development work on coaching, etc but recognise that the guys behind CC are a small team.

          I have often wondered if the work involved in ensuring accuracy in such a vast database hinders the development of other areas of the game. I know that almost everybody wants the game to be as accurate as possible but maybe the fans giving the devs a bit more leeway over this so they can spend more time on the things we grumble and mumble about year after year would not go amiss.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by cde View Post
            Personally I would love to see a lot more development work on coaching, etc but recognise that the guys behind CC are a small team.

            I have often wondered if the work involved in ensuring accuracy in such a vast database hinders the development of other areas of the game. I know that almost everybody wants the game to be as accurate as possible but maybe the fans giving the devs a bit more leeway over this so they can spend more time on the things we grumble and mumble about year after year would not go amiss.
            This is how they get away with breadcrumbing you each and every year.

            It's been a "small team" ever since inception. But the same team somehow manage to get out a new game every single year without fail (and on multiple platforms). We've never known them to struggle with this aspect.

            The size of the team doesn't mean they can't simply release a database update every year while spending more time on creating an actual better game for a later release date. Everyone could wait for a bi-annual game if it meant actual improvement.

            What we actually get is the database update every year, with a few 'gameplay additions' which are borderline insigificant, but with a brand new price tag for the priviledge. While nobody is forced to pay it it's a borderline scam that the same game is being repackaged like this for so long.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by hitthestump View Post

              This is how they get away with breadcrumbing you each and every year.

              It's been a "small team" ever since inception. But the same team somehow manage to get out a new game every single year without fail (and on multiple platforms). We've never known them to struggle with this aspect.

              The size of the team doesn't mean they can't simply release a database update every year while spending more time on creating an actual better game for a later release date. Everyone could wait for a bi-annual game if it meant actual improvement.

              What we actually get is the database update every year, with a few 'gameplay additions' which are borderline insigificant, but with a brand new price tag for the priviledge. While nobody is forced to pay it it's a borderline scam that the same game is being repackaged like this for so long.
              That's how companies like Ea Sports work, and look at the budge they work with.

              Bit harsh to be complaining about a game thats costs less than half the price of EA Sports titles, but getting about the same number of changes from year to year.

              I suspect, this game is more a labour of love for the developers, than to make any profit. It's a niche market they are working with too.

              Comment


              • #22
                Not having a release for a year would be fine with me - as long as the 100 has died a death by then!

                I imagine there would be significant lost revenue from skipping a year. I would be interested in which platform you would have the developers drop next year to spend more time improving the game - iOS? Steam? Google? I can't see how doing anything other than keeping up to date on these would not lead to an end of CC.

                I would also like to defend about the breadcrumbs. At absolutely no point do the team at Childish Things even hint at the idea that there have been sweeping changes each year. it is always very clear - you are buying an extended in-depth database update with broadly up to date tournament updates and a progression in the match engine.

                They aren't leading anyone on and so far each year is worth the extra.

                Does this mean that there are no big changes I would like to see? Of course not but I know the team act in good faith

                Comment


                • #23
                  Just want to echo what cde has stated and “good shout” mate.

                  CC2020 has seen the best features yet, along with yes, the latest squad updates (which I’m sure without, players would be soon crying about that too).

                  I think some people think we’re dealing with EA Sports or similar here. Well we’re not. I paid £8.99 for IOS version, the devs will get a fraction of that after paying the App Store etc. I’ve also just spent £55 buying the latest FIFA footy and guess what? I’ve got the latest squad updates and not much more.

                  In a nutshell they’re a small team, no million pound budget, it’s a niche cricket game with a loyal following. It’s a beautiful game and one we ought to be thankful for.

                  The solution is don’t buy if you’re not happy and spend the £9 or whatever on a burger. But please don’t complain..

                  Well done Childish Things!

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Yorkie View Post
                    Just want to echo what cde has stated and “good shout” mate.

                    CC2020 has seen the best features yet, along with yes, the latest squad updates (which I’m sure without, players would be soon crying about that too).

                    I think some people think we’re dealing with EA Sports or similar here. Well we’re not. I paid £8.99 for IOS version, the devs will get a fraction of that after paying the App Store etc. I’ve also just spent £55 buying the latest FIFA footy and guess what? I’ve got the latest squad updates and not much more.

                    In a nutshell they’re a small team, no million pound budget, it’s a niche cricket game with a loyal following. It’s a beautiful game and one we ought to be thankful for.

                    The solution is don’t buy if you’re not happy and spend the £9 or whatever on a burger. But please don’t complain..

                    Well done Childish Things!
                    Having a conversation with developers about features you would like is not really complaining,. In fact many software companies would pay for this and call it market research.
                    I know this because I own my own software company (Gambit Nash - feel free look it and me up I'm Doctor Paul Rone-Clarke an owning director at the company) We create software across multiple platforms using many different coding applications from serious business software to social apps - so I'm not unaware of the challenges facing small teams with update regular cycles.

                    I get your point to an extent. Being realistic, pointing out why a feature might benefit the game.

                    I think increased transparency with coaching and adding some layer of user customisation isn't really pushing the boat out too far.
                    I'm conscious that at some point in the next few years the game will almost definitely require a larger update. That's the way it's worked in the past. A major update - then 5 or 6 years of incremental updates.
                    To not table sensible suggestions for what features users may want isn't helpful to anyone.
                    No one wants to develop anything without reference to their user base.

                    The continued lack of stats in ICC is not so much the elephant in the room - as the Brontosaurus in the bathtub.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      I would like to make clear that I don't think anything that you (Scritty) has posted comes across as more than helpful criticism.

                      It was more the many comments that appear in threads from people who buy the game then get all aerated because they have bought exactly what the the seller was advertising.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by cde View Post
                        I would like to make clear that I don't think anything that you (Scritty) has posted comes across as more than helpful criticism.

                        It was more the many comments that appear in threads from people who buy the game then get all aerated because they have bought exactly what the the seller was advertising.
                        Thanks cde.

                        Appreciated

                        The continued lack of stats in ICC is not so much the elephant in the room - as the Brontosaurus in the bathtub.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          An excellent post, Scritty. I agree with virtually all of your post, but particularly so with the things below:

                          Originally posted by Scritty View Post
                          Still not fix 4th innings mega comebacks where sides who failed to score 150 in their first innings chase down 400 on a raging bunsen in the 4th innings (To be fair you can do this as a user as well. It's not just the AI that can do this. Lots of time. Zero aggression. Finger on the space bar...wait till you pull off a once in a lifetime win - 2 or 3 times a season)

                          It's not a bad game. But after more than 20 versions released over 22 years. It isn't a very good one any more either. It's hard to fathom how little has changed over such an incredibly long time.


                          I'd pay £40 maybe even £50 for a proper upgrade. A real push forward. That or someone else please provide Childish Things with some competition.
                          The 4th innings issue really bugs me. Cricket Coach has some great things in its game that Cricket Captain doesn't have - but Cricket Coach entirely falls away in being a realistic competitor because it has an awful match engine. For the most part, Cricket Captain has a very good match engine that strongly replicates real-life cricket...except for the 4th innings of tests/FC games, where the batting side become vastly overpowered even on the toughest of pitches. It completely baffles me as to how a test can be played out in a realistic fashion for three innings, but all too often this goes out the window for the last innings. As far as I'm aware this has been an issue since the very first Cricket Captain. It's not as bad as it was - I once chased down 650-odd on Cricket Captain 2009 on a 4th/5th day Indian pitch as England - but still prevalent.

                          I also strongly agree with frustration about how little the game has changed since 1998. The UI is the same, there's barely any new features, and the biggest change seems to be the introduction of the 3D graphics in ICC3. I appreciate it's a small development team, but there are many other small development teams in gaming who are able to churn out bigger updates and features to their games than that which Childish Things manage to do.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            4th innings is often an issue, it does happen too often. That's not to say it doesn't happen in real life but that it happens much less.

                            I find that there is a sweet spot where the total is just low enough for the AI to chase like it's a LO match but too high for such a chase. 140 in one session, 250 in two, 350 in three and so on. I then go for my LO tactics and win around 80% of the time as long as I have decent bowlers.

                            This is not an ideal way for the AI to work but I find it works in game

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              I've just completed a match where, thanks to my lame first innings performance, I left the opposition needing to chase just 75 in two sessions in the fourth innings. In tricky but not the worst batting conditions, they completely imploded and with fairly average aggression I bowled them out for 68 to win! So while I agree that fourth innings chases sometimes appear easier than they perhaps should be, it definitely doesn't happen all the time.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                I agree, but it’s the 3rd innings that grates with me especially after imposing the ‘follow on’..
                                Lets say after winning the toss you’ve posted 450ish, the oppo are then out for 199ish, every time during the follow on 3rd innings the oppo will miraculously then score 375 or whatever every time.
                                It’s unrealistic and I now never use the follow on unless I’m running out of time.

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