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  • #46
    When you start off your T20 squad is going to have weak spots, often even at international level. The best way to build T20 success is to invest. Identify where you are weak and prioritise this when it cones to signings because the T20s are the best rewarded competitions and therefore the quickest way to build overall success.

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    • #47
      As a reference point, this is all the scores from my most recent T20 group stage. About what I'd expect to see

      Notts 198-9, Worcs 178-6
      Warwicks 76, Notts 80-6
      Notts 178-9, Northants 177
      Notts 169-8, Durham 138
      Notts 154-8, Derbys 127-9
      Notts 168-5, Lancs 168-8
      Worcs 154-8, Notts 155-7
      Derbys 149-8, Notts 153-3
      Notts 180-4, Lancs 51
      Notts 154-6, Leics 140
      Warwicks 133-8,Notts 136-6
      Notts 168, Yorks 105
      Notts 132-6, 119-9
      Durham 77, Notts 78-3

      More often that not, the lower scores are attributed to turning or slower pitches - IRL you also see lower scores on these types of pitches.
      Nottinghamshire supporter and proud!

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      • #48
        As for the OD matches, selection is much the same bit far far harder thanks to the Hundred.

        You will not have your best players until the final stages in the domestic game because they will be with the evil competition so until you are very successful and have money to spare your OD team will be the players you have left over, maybe FC specialists or young unproven players.

        It is impossible to give guidelines because I just pick what I can and hope for the best. Eventually, when I have the money I sign promising youngsters or older pros who are missing out on the 100 on a year contract specifically for the OD matches. If they are no good, get picked up by the 100 or I need to tighten my belt I can just let them go.

        You also have no idea if the players returning from the 100 for the last stages are decent OD players because T20 ability doesn't always translate to OD matches and young players have little to no OD experience because they are playing in the Hundred.

        This applies to England internationals too. A few years down the line you have no idea which young players are good OD players because you have nothing to go on.

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        • #49
          As for batting in the OD matches the above tactics for the T20s stand but I start at 5 bar and only move above 6 when I have to chase hard or I have wickets in hand in the last 6 overs, in which case I got to 7 then 8 in the last two.

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          • #50
            Reference for the OD games

            Notts 332-7, Worcs 151
            Notts 259-9, Sussex 182
            Notts 221-8, Glamorgan 222-6
            Surrey 216, Notts 218-3
            Notts 300-5, Northants 184
            Notts 301-4, Leics 277
            Notts 300-7,Derbys 217
            Notts 329-8, Somerset 274
            Yorks 247-8, Notts 249-3 (SF)
            Notts 267-8, Surrey 217 (F)

            Once again, take into account lower totals are because I've lost wickets early, and rather than smash a quick 10-15 with the tail, I've conserved and got an extra 40-50.

            Going aggressive in the powerplay, conserving between 11-27/28 and then pushing on from there is usually pretty successful
            Nottinghamshire supporter and proud!

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            • #51
              Massively disagree that players can't come in and score big from ball 1. I've had great success sending in my lads one off top aggression and watching them go big.

              A couple examples below with Tom Abell who is a decent t20 batter but hardly a slogmeister supreme. Doesn't come off all the time but then neither should it. You've got to read the pitch, the opposition and sometimes just back your players. Also Lewis Gregory coming in and going big early doors, his first 5 balls went for 18 runs.

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              Last edited by Lynx54321; 08-02-2021, 01:18 PM.

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              • #52
                From some of the replies it seems people are still being very rigid with tactics around the number of bars of aggression they have their batters on, e.g. always start with X bars of aggression until a certain point then move up etc. I've posted about it before, but it seems to me in this edition this new E.RPO number is more important than the number of bars you set and so I'm basing my tactics around that. For T20s so far, I've put batters on however many bars are needed for the E.RPO number to be around 7 at first, and then move the aggression around each over in line with that number and reacting to the match situation. I'm sure this method isn't foolproof but I definitely feel way more in control of (and more successful with) limited-overs batting in this edition playing like this, and I'd say it's definitely worth trying if you're finding the old method of sticking constantly to a certain number of bars of aggression isn't working.

                It's still early days in this edition for me, but so far in T20 matches I've got a win rate of over 60%, whereas in previous editions most seasons it was below 40% as I struggled so much with the format. So far in this edition the only times I've failed to make over 150 have been when I've been chasing a total that's lower than that, and that most definitely was not the case for me in previous editions.

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                • #53
                  I've started a new save as Glamorgan and while the T20s were a washout - call-ups, injuries, bad form and quite frankly players not up to it meant that while my bowling was OK I was fielding batsmen I would never touch with a barge pole for a T20 match.

                  So while I was failing to reach 150 most matches I was using two defensive openers and players who average less than 20 in the 2nd XI. I still managed 157 and 164 in those matches.

                  Just finished the OD competition and I won it outright, mostly based on bowling teams out for low totals. My top three consisted of two regens (one signed at start of season) and Joe Cooke, none of whom had played a single List A match. They were backed up by Carlson (average of 22), Root (star batsman at 44), Horton as wicket keeper with no List A experience, Nesser (22), Weighell (9), Hogan (17), Sisodiya and a regen (No experience).

                  I batted 3 full innings and totalled 213, 290-4, 244-5, 286-9 and with a semi final place already booked a hilarious 79 All out against Yorkshire. The lowest I chased down was 197, the highest 245.

                  The quality of the bowling is obviously weaker but then I was missing my best LO players too. The scores aren't too far off the OD scores Glamorgan are getting in real life.

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                  • #54
                    Some people reading this thread and imagining that I'm sitting on the same bars all of the time with each player for every game...

                    I'm into 2031... I've played a few games gents.

                    If you look at Dave K's list of T20 scores there's not one score over 200 and only 5 over 170, that to me seems low. I think ODI is more realistic.

                    For the 20th time: Savio and I are arguing that it's much more difficult for batters to come in near the end and hit quick runs compared to the previous game. We're not saying it's impossible as I've obviously had people smack 30 from 12 balls...

                    I think this is unrealistic compared to the previous incarnations of the game and compared to real life...

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                    • #55
                      I think it is tough for the devs to satisfy everyone. You have keep in mind that there are only about 30-40 people who regularly post on the forum. I would imagine at least around 2000-10000 would be playing across platforms.
                      So the devs wont really make a change if a couple of people think the match engine is not good enough. ( Sorry if it sounds harsh)

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by galvatron View Post
                        Some people reading this thread and imagining that I'm sitting on the same bars all of the time with each player for every game...

                        I'm into 2031... I've played a few games gents.

                        If you look at Dave K's list of T20 scores there's not one score over 200 and only 5 over 170, that to me seems low. I think ODI is more realistic.

                        For the 20th time: Savio and I are arguing that it's much more difficult for batters to come in near the end and hit quick runs compared to the previous game. We're not saying it's impossible as I've obviously had people smack 30 from 12 balls...

                        I think this is unrealistic compared to the previous incarnations of the game and compared to real life...
                        Ok, let's not try and misuse the information to suit your end there.

                        All my home games were on spinning tracks - realistically, that costs you 20 runs.

                        In addition, my batting style is such that I don't necessarily try and smash it. If I've got a settled batsman at the end of my innings, I'd rather leave him on a lower aggression than up it, get him out and have to rebuild.

                        Your whole argument centres around the fact that you can't come in and smash it. No-one, I repeat NO-ONE, can come in and start smashing 6s from ball one REGULARLY. Sometimes it comes off, sometimes it doesn't. It is wholly unrealistic to expect someone to come in on a used pitch and immediately smash it ball one - speaking very much from experience.

                        T20 is all about adaptation and being reactive to the situation. I can arguably do that better - if I can work out how to do so, I probably up my average total to 190.
                        Nottinghamshire supporter and proud!

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Jobi1K View Post
                          From some of the replies it seems people are still being very rigid with tactics around the number of bars of aggression they have their batters on, e.g. always start with X bars of aggression until a certain point then move up etc. I've posted about it before, but it seems to me in this edition this new E.RPO number is more important than the number of bars you set and so I'm basing my tactics around that. For T20s so far, I've put batters on however many bars are needed for the E.RPO number to be around 7 at first, and then move the aggression around each over in line with that number and reacting to the match situation. I'm sure this method isn't foolproof but I definitely feel way more in control of (and more successful with) limited-overs batting in this edition playing like this, and I'd say it's definitely worth trying if you're finding the old method of sticking constantly to a certain number of bars of aggression isn't working.

                          It's still early days in this edition for me, but so far in T20 matches I've got a win rate of over 60%, whereas in previous editions most seasons it was below 40% as I struggled so much with the format. So far in this edition the only times I've failed to make over 150 have been when I've been chasing a total that's lower than that, and that most definitely was not the case for me in previous editions.
                          One of the great things about the game is that there are multiple ways to play and win - just like in real life.

                          Well, just one way - to score more runs but you know what I mean!

                          Sounds like a good method. I'm very prescriptive but as I've mentioned before I'm lazy and get bored of the T20s quite quickly. As long as my method reliably gets me to the knock out stage I can't be doing with anything that slows it down too much. However once I get to the knockout stages I'm giving your method a try.

                          Who is that success rate with? International or domestic side and how many years in? Just interested

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by DaveK93 View Post

                            Ok, let's not try and misuse the information to suit your end there.

                            All my home games were on spinning tracks - realistically, that costs you 20 runs.

                            In addition, my batting style is such that I don't necessarily try and smash it. If I've got a settled batsman at the end of my innings, I'd rather leave him on a lower aggression than up it, get him out and have to rebuild.

                            Your whole argument centres around the fact that you can't come in and smash it. No-one, I repeat NO-ONE, can come in and start smashing 6s from ball one REGULARLY. Sometimes it comes off, sometimes it doesn't. It is wholly unrealistic to expect someone to come in on a used pitch and immediately smash it ball one - speaking very much from experience.

                            T20 is all about adaptation and being reactive to the situation. I can arguably do that better - if I can work out how to do so, I probably up my average total to 190.
                            I watched Tom Moores hit his first ball for 6 on live TV yesterday! Here is the video at the correct moment it happened. https://youtu.be/y8oiDOSRh8M?t=314ht...iDOSRh8M?t=314


                            I remembered that De Qock also hit his first ball for 6 last week: https://youtu.be/NSfadD_Qgmg?t=536 I can't be bothered to look through all the IPL and 100 commentaries to point out all of the times that people have came in and smashed it around.

                            Many players do come in and hit boundaries from the off regularly, that's why the likes of Warner, De Kock, Pollard, Pandya, Pant etc cost a fortune in the IPL draft.

                            I would also point to this wonderful CricViz article about Eoin Morgan: https://www.cricviz.com/eoin-morgans-transformation/

                            Where they say about him: 'he is delivering big runs on a REGULAR basis (his average, strike-rate and six hitting rate are all at their peak.)


                            Modern batsmen do come out and hit boundaries from the off and it was regularly possible on Cricket Captain 2020.

                            I do not expect all batsmen to be able to hit the ball for boundaries instantly. I expect it to work sometimes.

                            I am saying that it almost never works. I don't understand how it's that hard to get my argument.
                            Last edited by galvatron; 08-02-2021, 11:58 PM.

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                            • #59
                              Liam Livingstone hit his first ball for 6 the other day. Got out next ball. That's not really a valid argument. Neither is Eoin Morgan, who's in horrific form right now.

                              The T20 ME is comfortably better this year than last; takes batting collapses into account much more accurately. If you go too hard, it doesn't always pay off, nor should it. Got to think a lot more carefully about how you play the game.
                              Nottinghamshire supporter and proud!

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by galvatron View Post
                                I am saying that it almost never works. I don't understand how it's that hard to get my argument.
                                I get you. As I was trying to say before the point is it might not be as realistic as desired, not that it is unrealistic.

                                The only way forward is cold hard numbers. Someone needs to watch a year's worth of T20, and if they are particularly twisted the Hundred, and have a defibative list of who came in to smash it and hit a big one straight off and who just walked straight back to the pavilion.

                                Otherwise this is subjective and the examples put forth only there to fit our hypothesis.

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