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Proteas of the future. ICC 2013 should aim greater accuracy.

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  • Proteas of the future. ICC 2013 should aim greater accuracy.

    I have just discovered the forum! I love this game so much – 2012 is the first one I have bought. I think the next generation of Proteas are not always accurate in the game though, so this is my take on who to look at improving.

    I am assuming the current SA team is:

    Smith
    Petersen
    Amla
    Kallis
    De Villiers
    Du Plessis
    Duminy (Elgar as backup)
    Peterson
    Philander
    Steyn
    Morkel

    If one analyses the Sunfoil Series for the last few years (the Franchise FC competition), it is possible to spot which players under the age of 28 have potential futures for the Proteas. ICC 2012 gets many of these players right, but some of them are terrible in the game, despite a great overall FC averages, great Sunfoil Series averages and even solid performances for SA “A”. There are many amateurs who do brilliantly in ICC 2012 – I urge the developers to use stats from the Sunfoil Series to determine FC ability. Using provincial averages is fine to a point – they can provide a guide in the same way that 2nd XI county averages can. Below is my list of SA players that have an international future in my opinion and on their Sunfoil performances:

    Batsmen:

    Stiaan van Zyl:

    Averaged 61.18 with the bat in the 2012-2013 Sunfoil Series, he played in every match for the Cape Cobras apart from one when he was injured. His performances for SA “A” have been great and he has consistently performed over the last few seasons. His FC average is 43.29 with the bat (SR just over 49) and his part-time medium pace has bagged him 34 wickets @31.47.

    Rilee Rossouw:

    Averaged 48.5 with the bat in the 2012-2013 Sunfoil Series. He averages 43.56 overall in FC matches at a healthy SR of over 63.

    Quinton de Kock:

    Billed to be the new de Villiers, de Kock averaged 46.58 in this season’s Sunfoil Series. After averaging above 60 in previous seasons, he still managed to perform admirably despite this season’s especially damp, bowler-friendly weather! At 20 he has the odd technical flaw, but in all formats he is a great prospect. He averages 55.7 with the bat in FC competitions at a rampant 85.69 strike rate. He is also a fantastic keeper, fielder and all-round athlete.

    All-rounders

    Chris Morris:

    Averaged 16.00 with the ball this season in the 2012-2013 Sunfoil Series. Having played in the shorter forms of the game for the Proteas, a Test call-up is not unlikely, especially when Kallis retires. He averages 34.28 with the bat and 23.21 with the ball.

    Keshav Maharaj, bowler with potential to be classified allrounder:

    A young slow-left arm bowler who bats competently, Maharaj averaged 9 with the ball after only a few matches. His FC average is 23.34 with the bat and 27.31 with the ball. His economy rate after 17 T20s is 5.39. You may think it is odd that I include such an inexperienced spinner on the list? There are not many quality spinners in South Africa in general, especially under the age of 28. Simon Harmer, Aaron Phangiso may perhaps compete with Maharaj for the Test side one day, but I think South Africa will look for the triple lock of spinners who bat a bit and control the run rate. Simon Harmer’s season resulted in a disappointing average of 42.42 and Phangiso did not play any first class matches for the Lions this season and does not have batting ability!

    Ayabulela Gqamane, bowler with potential to be classified allrounder:

    Averaged 14.16 with the ball for the Warriors in the 2012-2013 Sunfoil Series after playing in most of the matches. Gqamane averages 20.13 with the bat and 17.91 with the ball, so only just makes onto the all-rounder list as he is young and his batting should hopefully improve. With a bowling strike rate of 31.38 (27 this season), this swing bowler is a phenomenal bowling prospect for the Proteas.

    Bowlers:

    Kyle Abbott:

    Averaged 15.36 for the Dolphins in the 2012-2013 Sunfoil Series. His form resulted in him being called up to replace the injured Philander for the Proteas final test against Pakistan, where he took 9 wickets on debut, including 7-29 in the first innings. After the performance, Cricketarchive re-classified him as a fast-medium bowler, pending adjustment to fast bowler, as he consistently bowls in the mid 140kph zone. He is listed as a medium in Icc 2012 – could this be corrected for the next version? His FC batting average is 19.19 and bowling average 20.74.

    Beuran Hendricks:

    Averaged 17.74 this season in the 2012-2013 Sunfoil Series. After net sessions with Donald, the left armer was described as a highly promising bowler, capable of swinging the ball at pace. He averages 6.69 with the bat and 20.78 with the ball in FC matches.

    Hardus Viljoen (GC Viljoen):

    Averaged 21.51 in this season’s Sunfoil Series. He played in T20s against New Zealand late in 2012. Viljoen bowls at an intimidating pace, and Cricketarchive have duly responded, re-classifying him as a fast not a fast-medium. His FC batting average is 16.3 and his bowling average is 26.3.

    Calvin Savage:

    Averaged 26.35 in this seasons’s Sunfoil Series. This young 20 year old also bowls at a terrific pace. He is certainly a decent prospect, especially as his action is so smooth, despite his height. He averages 18.88 with the bat and 26.35 with the ball in all FC competitions.

    Lizaad Williams:

    Averaged 21.42 in this season’s Sunfoil Series. His FC average is 8.28with the bat and 19.79 with the ball.

    Marchant de Lange:

    Missed the Sunfoil Series through injury, but in the T20 competition, his new, smoother action looks great and he generating more speed and bounce than previously!

    In addition to these players, there are of course a number of fringe players over the age of 28 (Rudolph, Puttick, McKenzie, Birch, Tahir, Kleinveldt etc). Then there is also Parnell who has started to find form once again – who knows what will happen with him. What do you think about my list?

  • #2
    I agree with most of this. The spinner issue is difficult I agree. I wish SA had tried Botha as a long term test option - he ties up one end and is economical - exactly what we need.

    Simetu, Piedt and Eden Links look like good prospects but they seem to mainly be selected for shorter forms of the game T20s and List A. The reason for this is that the pitches all favour the quicks! I hope these 3 get a chance in more Franchise First Class games!

    I think that national A sides would be great in ICC 2012 in order to develop ones understanding of the depth.. The only thing that would beat that is of course adding the SA leagues!!

    Comment


    • #3
      Viljoen is still listed as RFM on cricketarchive.com although perhaps it should be RF? If we had a massive batting injury crisis I reckon Rudolph would be recalled, alongside debutants Rossouw and Van Zyl. The bowling depth (spinners aside) is fantastic atm.

      Comment


      • #4
        You should clearly be the SAF researcher for the game. I agree with many of the things you say and thought the South African research for the game has always lacked and has been in need of researchers for a while. You clearly seem a great fit for the rule.

        Comment


        • #5
          Obus Pienaar has always done the business for me at County level - opens bowling and bats at 5 for me on my Somerset save
          My last season (2017) he was averaging 50+ with the bat and -25 with the ball

          Any thoughts on him ?
          Is he just better in the game than in real life ?

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Dick Van Dykes Disco Dog View Post
            Obus Pienaar has always done the business for me at County level - opens bowling and bats at 5 for me on my Somerset save
            My last season (2017) he was averaging 50+ with the bat and -25 with the ball

            Any thoughts on him ?
            Is he just better in the game than in real life ?
            He looked promising but has had a poor season. He only bowled 16 overs in 9 FC matches and took 2 wickets for 43 runs in the season. He averaged 31 with the bat.

            For some reason the Knights almost NEVER bowl him despite a great FC average. There must be a physical or technical reason for this? When he does bowl it is only for really short spells even when he is bowling well. I have watched him in Port Elizabeth against the Warriors..

            There are about 10 players that the game over-rates I reckon - players that are often selected for SA e.g. Eccles. Piedt, Simetu and Deeb are too good also. They may develop, but they are great from the word go in the Proteas' team (they rarely make it into their franchise xi!)

            Thandi's list is good I reckon though. Some of them are good in the game e.g. de Kock, whereas others are not good enough perhaps. Rossouw, van Zyl, Viljoen, Williams, Gqamane and Maharaj are not great in the game. I am sure after this season's stats are processed for the 2013 game they will be improved.

            Comment


            • #7
              The list that Thandiwe made earlier is great with regards players who need improving. I have made a small list regarding doing the opposite:

              I skipped 6 seasons with Zim (quickest team to skip seasons with as they play hardly any matches) to observe the evolution of the SA team. The following players became regulars and in my view need their abilities REDUCED!

              Abdul Razak (not to be confused with Razzak!) becomes a stalwart of the South African team. He has a decent first class bowling average but nearly all of his matches have been provincial. He averages 68.66 with the ball in the only game he has played for the Dolphins.

              Dane Paterson had a great bowling average early in his career but has been poor since moving to KZN. For the Dolphins he averages 40.37!

              Obus Pienaar had decent batting and bowling stats last season, but this season (as mentioned earlier), he has been mediocre with the bat and barely bowled. I think his ability should be reduced – as I am sure the stats will automatically make it so – in the next release of the game.

              Keagan Eccles becomes a stalwart of the South African team. He has a decent first class bowling average but nearly all of his matches have been provincial. He averages 70 with the ball in the only game he has played for the Dolphins.

              Cameron Delport replaced Smith in 2016 I noticed. He averages 26 with the bat for the Dolphins!

              Any thoughts with regards to reducing these players' abilities in the game? Vilas, de Kock and de Lange also make it into the team down the line, but I think their strong franchise performances justify the high ability they have in the game. One or two regens also made it in in my game by 2017. I would expect this to happen in real life too as there are probably plenty of quality youngsters we don't yet know..

              Comment


              • #8
                On another issue, I notice that the majority of new players that step up to the senior team are regens (apart from the ones listed above)? I think that player development should be looked at, as there are many current players aged 21-25 who will improve over the next few years and step up to the international mark. I know that existing, young players can improve a bit in the game, but obviously by not very much seeing as they are generally surpassed by the regens. Of course regens should sometimes appear and almost immediately step up, but it shouldn't happen as the norm!

                I think that perhaps international 2nd team (A teams) squads need to be worked out (just as an exercise), in order to determine who will replace the current first team, as Delport, Pienaar, Eccles, Razak and Paterson are unlikely to make the cut plus 6-7 other regens. I suggest starting with Thandi's list, as these players are either waiting in the wings, on the fringe or have incredible international potential!

                I think Piedt and Simetu also need some nerfing as they don't really play First Class franchise games. They have great provincial stats, but I think without much franchise experience, they shouldn't be elevated as much as they have been..

                Comment


                • #9
                  There is some superb information in here, all noted ready for 2013.

                  As you all know we have done a lot of work over the last year with SA and we've made a good start, but there's still more to do. Provincial games counting as first class is a major issue in how we determine player abilities, but we've got a good base to work from now.

                  I should get through the stats for the last year shortly, so I'll be able to use this data to make some improvements.

                  Parnell is an interesting case, he's very talented, but he's not been at all consistent throughout his career, bit early perhaps, but is he going to be one of these cricketers who never has the strength to cope with international cricket?

                  Outside of de Kock, how is the keeper situation looking? Has Tsotsobe's time come and gone? I know he's a good gloveman, but the times are demanding batting depth. When I last read AB was giving hints that he doesn't want to do it for much more than a year or so.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Sureshot View Post
                    There is some superb information in here, all noted ready for 2013.

                    As you all know we have done a lot of work over the last year with SA and we've made a good start, but there's still more to do. Provincial games counting as first class is a major issue in how we determine player abilities, but we've got a good base to work from now.

                    I should get through the stats for the last year shortly, so I'll be able to use this data to make some improvements.

                    Parnell is an interesting case, he's very talented, but he's not been at all consistent throughout his career, bit early perhaps, but is he going to be one of these cricketers who never has the strength to cope with international cricket?

                    Outside of de Kock, how is the keeper situation looking? Has Tsotsobe's time come and gone? I know he's a good gloveman, but the times are demanding batting depth. When I last read AB was giving hints that he doesn't want to do it for much more than a year or so.
                    Parnell had a good season for the Warriors. Jury is out in my opinion.. He is incredibly young still and has a lot of talent so maybe when he gets a taste of international cricket again he will grab the opportunity and deliver. I remember players like Hayward (Nantie) ended up on the scrap-heap after being exposed at too young an age...

                    In terms of the keepers, I am guessing you are asking about Tsolekile? I like him a lot but he had an average season with the bat and unfortunately his batting might let him down. Barring a serious injury I think de Villiers will keep, with Vilas and Kuhn as potential medium term backup options and de Kock as a long term serious talent.

                    I think the SA side of the game is looking good for future accuracy, as this thread has a lot of stat-backed-up info.. Let's keep it up!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Does anyone have any opinions on these squads for the franchises (based on players who played in 2012-2013)?

                      The season starts in the late September and normally the early 4 day games are used to get the test players in form for the Oct/Nov tests. This last season, though, the Proteas were especially busy with England matches, Champion's League and a T20 World Cup meaning most players were rested.


                      Cape Cobras

                      MQ Adams
                      AJ Gray
                      BE Hendricks
                      JM Kemp
                      RK Kleinveldt
                      CK Langeveldt
                      RE Levi
                      J Louw
                      JL Ontong
                      RJ Peterson
                      VD Philander
                      DL Piedt
                      AG Puttick
                      MY Vallie
                      S van Zyl
                      DJ Vilas
                      LB Williams
                      DW Steyn
                      FD Adams
                      Azhar Mahmood (Overseas, T20 only)
                      FC Plaatjies
                      OA Shah (Overseas, T20 only)
                      JP Duminy
                      D Steyn
                      J Kallis
                      G Smith

                      Dolphins

                      KJ Abbott
                      CJ Alexander
                      C Chetty
                      Frylinck
                      I Khan
                      KA Maharaj
                      DA Miller
                      D Paterson
                      CP Savage
                      M Shezi
                      D Smit
                      P Subrayen
                      JD Vandiar
                      VB van Jaarsveld
                      DJ van Wyk
                      K Zondo
                      CS Delport
                      LL Tsotsobe
                      YA Abdulla
                      RS Bopara (Overseas, T20 only)
                      H Amla

                      Knights

                      RT Bailey
                      P Botha
                      GL Cloete
                      WL Coetsee
                      CA Dry
                      D du Preez
                      D Elgar
                      MN Erlank
                      Q Friend
                      RR Hendricks
                      R McLaren
                      AJ (Obus) Pienaar
                      RR Rossouw
                      RS Second
                      MP Siboto
                      AR Swanepoel
                      RK Terblanche
                      JJ van der Wath
                      SC van Schalkwyk
                      MN van Wyk
                      N Boje
                      D Olivier
                      JPH Triegaardt
                      LE Bosman
                      PJ van Biljon

                      Lions

                      T Bavuma
                      GH Bodi
                      SC Cook
                      WA Deacon
                      Z de Bruyn
                      Q de Kock
                      DA Hendricks
                      Imran Tahir
                      D Klein
                      GJP Kruger
                      E Leie
                      ND McKenzie
                      P Matshikwe
                      CH Morris
                      E O'Reilly
                      BJ Pelser
                      AN Petersen
                      TL Tsolekile
                      GC (Hardus) Viljoen
                      TG Mokoena
                      AM Phangiso
                      J Symes
                      D Pretorius
                      Sohail Tanvie (Overseas, T20 only)
                      HE van der Dussen

                      Titans

                      F Behardien
                      TM Bodibe
                      H Davids
                      M de Lange
                      CJD de Villiers
                      JP de Villiers
                      PL Harris
                      HG Kuhn
                      JF Le Clus
                      SW Liebisch
                      PJ Malan
                      LMG Masekela
                      NE Mbhalati
                      M Mosehle
                      RR Richards
                      JA Rudolph
                      GL van Buuren
                      RE van der Merwe
                      S von Berg
                      D Wiese
                      AB de Villiers
                      JA Morkel
                      M Morkel
                      MW Olivier
                      M van Jaarsveld
                      HH Gibbs
                      ER Links
                      SB Styris (Overseas, T20 only)
                      AC Thomas
                      Faf du Plessis

                      Warriors

                      ACR Birch
                      AZM Dyili
                      A Gqamane
                      SR Harmer
                      CA Ingram
                      A Jacobs
                      DJ Jacobs
                      C Jonker
                      AP McLaren
                      V Makhaphela
                      WD Parnell
                      ML Price
                      AG Prince
                      GR Rabie
                      JT Smuts
                      KR Smuts
                      BD Walters
                      CN Ackermann
                      J (Rusty) Theron
                      CA Thyssen
                      L Mbane
                      Samit Patel (Overseas, T20 only)
                      M Ntini

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Titans have a big squad!

                        This thread is massive now!!! I agree that Obus Pienaar is useful rather than a world beater (after his average season), so I am sure he will be a less prominent figure in the 2013 game.

                        I agree the following need to be made worse:

                        Razak
                        Paterson (on periphery of Dolphins squad)
                        Eccles (who is he?)
                        Delport (on the periphery of Dolphins)
                        Piedt (could one day be good but as a spinner not given the chances
                        Simetu (see Piedt!)
                        and I think also Dale Deeb. Do you agree he is too good, although a prospect?

                        You can see averages for each season in FC, List A and T20 competitions for the 6 Franchises. That way you can see stats that are not tainted by provincial stats and maybe then you will get a better picture of the top players and potential Proteas?

                        Cobras
                        http://cricketarchive.com/Archive/Te...ent_lists.html

                        Dolphins
                        http://cricketarchive.com/Archive/Te...ent_lists.html

                        Knights
                        http://cricketarchive.com/Archive/Te...ent_lists.html

                        Lions
                        http://cricketarchive.com/Archive/Te...ent_lists.html

                        Titans
                        http://cricketarchive.com/Archive/Te...ent_lists.html

                        Warriors
                        http://cricketarchive.com/Archive/Te...ent_lists.html


                        The squad lists look correct to me but if I think of someone you have left out I will post another message.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Anyone know the latest on Johann Myburgh, opener who spent end of last summer at Durham, I believe spent some time in NZ cricket but is South African.

                          He's not played a game since end of August, his form was pretty poor. I know he was originally only signed until the end of the season.

                          His player profile is not on the Durham website and there is no news about him playing elsewhere. I'm assuming he's doing something outside of cricket.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Sureshot View Post
                            Anyone know the latest on Johann Myburgh, opener who spent end of last summer at Durham, I believe spent some time in NZ cricket but is South African.

                            He's not played a game since end of August, his form was pretty poor. I know he was originally only signed until the end of the season.

                            His player profile is not on the Durham website and there is no news about him playing elsewhere. I'm assuming he's doing something outside of cricket.

                            Did he not qualify for NZ when he went there for a few years? Anyway I think he is playing for Sutton in the Surrey Premier League (he played there in 2003).
                            http://cricketarchive.com/Archive/Pl...all_teams.html
                            Last edited by Graham_5000; 04-21-2013, 06:15 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Thank you

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